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divorce

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Subject: separation with divorce in 2 years? Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

thank you. looks like im dependent on him then, unless i do go straight for the divorce with grounds. thanks again everyone.

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evr

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:39:03

Separation agreements aren\'t really worth a great deal, so if time is passing then its probably just as well to go ahead and petition for divorce. Unreasonable behaviour doesn\'t need to be terribly unpleasant, so you don\'t need to go for the jugular. Leaving the loo seat up, not being attentive, reasons can be as petty and vague as that. Nobody really cares. I\'m afraid though, that if you think your ex is going to be difficult over the divorce, you are probably right. Don\'t expect anything else then you won\'t be disappointed. Keep it in mind that at some point it will be over and you can start again, thats the most important thing.

divorce

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

i appreciate what you say regarding the grounds for divorce not needing to be serious etc. to be honest, for me to do that would most definately feel like taking the mockery out of what i have actually had to live with in the marriage, some extremely serious stuff that has truly affected me. im not being silly, without a doubt, my husband, even if we had agreed to do this would present it to others as if these were my \'real\' grounds and try to make me look \'not the full shilling\'. you have to understand that this man goes to great lengths to make himself look like the \'decent\' person in any given situation. it would also be lying and im not happy about doing that just because of my husbands unreasonableness. my husbands compulisive lying was one of the reasons for our split and i have no intentions of \'reflecting\' his personality in myself. if i have to give grounds, it will be because of his behaviour and will be the truth. i cant think of a reason why he would want to mess me around. its his behaviour that caused the split and he has maintained that this is what he wants and was his request to do things amicably. i still have access to all our joint accounts so i cant see what he has to gain, except as i say, he might be waiting to see what the grounds are first, even although there are no grounds with a separation agreement which would mean he is instead trying to force me into putting down the grounds so he can be unreasonable or present the situation to others as an example of the \'tedious\' stuff he has had to endure from me. my husband, genuinely damages relationships between people and \'feeds\' of this sort of stuff and im not interested in playing games but i will not allow him to think he can control me and how i proceed when its not how i want things to proceed. this is my divorce and we have 3 very young children and i will not allow him \'reason\' to be unkind or cruel. my question was - if my letter stated that i was going for divorce on the 2 year basis, would that enable him to be legally expected to return the form e? thanks for your responses.

Joyce.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:27:29

No, it wouldn\'t. How could you force disclosure on the basis of something that has never happened. You may never be separated for 2 years. One of you might die first....

evr

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:39:03

Trouble is, it isn\'t just your divorce, its his as well. He will have his own agenda, and no, you can\'t force him to make any disclosures until the point of divorce. If you decide to wait two years you will still need his cooperation, so I would repeat you would be best going for divorce now rather than wait.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

ok. thank you. i will discuss with solicitor.

Rizy

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:23:41

Hi ... I agree with evr ... the fact you want to use in your ground is (if i understood correctly) two years separation .... then it is very important to bear in mind that \'two years separation is ALWAYS with consent\' by the Respondent (your husband) if he doesnt agree to it then i am sorry you are wasting two years on waiting. The best thing is for you to secure your and your children\'s future and be free from him. Therefore, it is best to file for a divorce on his \'unreasonable behaviour\'. I hope it helps... There is \' five years separation WITHOUT consent\'. just for your info ...

divorce

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

i understand this, thankyou. my husband also wants the divorce so i dont see him refusing it in 2 years. the problem may be that he is not willing to wait 2 years. i realise he could file for divorce but i cant see that he\'d have any grounds. got meeting in early january with solicitor. may need to brave it and ask my husband what hes doing and why hes taking so long. i wouldn\'t be surprised however if he said the 2 year thing was ok by him but would rather keep the bank accounts as they are with him and i both continuing equal access. there is no real reason i guess to go against this desicion other than the fact it doesn\'t contribute to feeling \'separated\' from one another but i guess it could be an option and that way we can still see how much cash the other is spending etc although not sure i like that idea either. am i just being fickle or do you think to keep the accounts as they are is a good idea - for 2years.

Rizy

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:23:41

I personaly think its not wise to keep the joint account going because although you can kep an eye on the transactions but what if he enters into a business or something where he invests the money and losses it then clearly you are equally responsible for financially (thats the mistake i had made but later froze the account). I dont know too much as to whether its good to keep the accounts as they are but from my personal experience its NOT ..... I dont know how quickly you want this to be over and move on. But if for some reason you want to get rid of him and get given finanancial shares, its might be wise to have a chat with him and see what is his next move. I hope your meeting goes well with your sols and they give you the best advise....

divorce

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

thanks again rizy. nice talking to you.

Owl1

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:36:10

divorce I\'m not sure why you want to keep joint accounts. Its not advisable and why do you want to track his spending? As he has now moved out and you are living in the fmh with the children, would it not be better for you to open your own account, have your income paid into it and seek CM and psssibly SM if eligible from him pending the divorce and outcome of finances. You don\'t need his permission to open a separate account and have your income paid into it, nor do you need his permission to freeze the joint account. If he does not want make an interim agreement re CM go the CSA route. If he wants to divorce you he will, he only has to cite grounds where he considers you are acting unreasonably. Its not about what you think is unreasonable. I agree with evr, if your ex is going to be dificult he will be. Its best to keep that out of your mind and just press forward. You may have to accept that you are not going to have any say in how he acts from now on. Thats what separation and divorce are about.

Owl1

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:36:10

Sorry divorce, just read the other board and see you have no income other than the income you are paid from the company. You need to talk to your sol about the best course of action. I was in a similar position on separation in that my only income was from our company but unlike you I had an equal shareholding and was a director and was fully cognisant about all the Company affairs. You are much more vulnerable given you do not have effective control of the company on whose income you depend. Your ex or the other sharholders could stop your source of income at any time. It may be better for you to remove that vulnerability by seeking an interim Court order compelling him to pay you CM and SM until the divorce is finalised. I think its called Maintenance pending suit.

divorce

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

thanks owl. regarding keeping joint accounts. this is not what i want to do, i have a feeling he may suggest it thats all and although i wouldn\'t feel comfortble with that i just wanted the views of others should he suggest this, so thank you for that. yes. all i want is for finances to be sorted pending divorce but everyone is telling me he is not legally obliged to do this (ie: doesn\'t need to fill in form e) which he hasn\'t done yet. are you saying, he could still agree to paying me sm and cm without having to fill in form e? if this is the case, im happy with that, then finances can be sorted in 2 years at divorce? however, you point out he or shareholders can stop my income, i didn\'t realise this. they can\'t just remove me from owning my ahares can they? what would be the point of having equal shares if this is the case? i am down as company secretary, can they really just remove me without my signature etc? sounds a bit strange? but yes, if husband is happy to pay me what i need and does not need to diclose on form e, thats fine. i was of the impression that he had to fill in form e.

divorce

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

ps: one more question. if he did agree to pay cm and sm pending divorce, does this mean we would each take our share of the savings? would the mortgage still need to come out the same account since the mortgage is joint? or would we need to agree that the mortgage now came out of my new account and i\'d have to pay it out of my savings? or would he be expected to continue paying it until divorce? i could afford to pay the mortgage for about 4 years from my share of savings but he would still need to pay me sm for living costs etc and cm. however, this all said, our mortgage is also tied to our savings. ie, the more savings we have in our account varies our mortgage payments. if we left the mortgage and savings in joint accounts might be easiest at this stage but he would then need to open up account in his name since all his spending comes out the same account as our mortgage and he obviously wouldn\'t want that as id have access to this account. any ideas?

LazyLizzie

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:30:41

Somebody may correct me on this one but I am fairly sure my solicitor told me that there was only one way that was ALMOST guaranteed to make my ex fill out a Form E. This was to push the Ancilliary Proceedings through court (ancilliary proceedings being the legal name for sorting out the pennies on divorce). By pushing it through court, the court sets dates by which the Forms must be completed by both parties. In order to instigate Ancilliary Proceedings I was told you had to have already got your Decree Nisi (the first stage of getting your divorce). As far as I am aware if you are only seperated you cannot force him to complete the Form E. I believe from previous posts on this board that there have been people who have failed to produce Form E\'s at court as required but they seem to be in the minority. There are plenty of people who tell lies on them though so when you receive your husband\'s completed form please read it very carefully. You will be given oportunity to ask for further information should things seem incomplete or unclear. If you haven\'t already got a bank acount open in your sole name then please start to arrange one now. This is not so you can hide money - its because many people with little or no income find opening accounts after divorce is almost impossible, certainly if you want the luxury of a debit card.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

thank you. looks like im dependent on him then, unless i do go straight for the divorce with grounds. thanks again everyone.

Stuart

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:39:14

Yes, but the grounds can be pretty well anything as long as he doesnt defend. My ex committed adultery but because I decided not to divorce her straight away she petitioned me with some pretty vicious stuff. So vicious in fact that I will defend it as a litigant in person. Stupid woman doesnt seem to understand that if she had just gone for something less hurtful and damaging I would most likely have accepted it.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

i can totally understand what you are saying stuart. unfortunately, my grounds are quite specific and are real which he couldn\'t deny if he was willing to be honest. he and i both know why the marriage ended. but i, like you would be mortified if he even tried to suggest that \'he\' had grounds to divorce me and i\'d find that very difficult to simply agree to, because no matter what my imperfections are, none of them are destructive to relationships/marriage and most would have been in response to \'his unreasonable behaviour\' and even then i think all he could accuse me of is being moody which would have been easily justified to say the least. i know people say its just a matter of rising above it in order to get the divorce but when you\'re the one who hasn\'t caused the breakdown, and believe me i would have done anything to keep my children in an intact family, its very insulting to say the least. especially when the other person is known for creating a \'perfect, charming\' impression to others and actively goes out of his way to do so, even if it means hurting and lying about others. also, i take marriage seriously and to think that i could be put down as the reason for my children not having an intact family anymore is quite unimaginable.

LazyLizzie

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:30:41

The grounds for divorce are known to you and your husband, your solicitors if you have them and the court. NOBODY ELSE. Whilst I can undestand your point of view, you may end up annoying your ex2b so thoroughly that he argues and delays on sorting out the finances which could leave you in a very poor situation - is it so important that you spell out all of his failings and risk your future? As to him finding fault with you - of course he can. \"She was so good at caring for the kids she made me feel redundant. She managed my money for me. She picked up and tidied round me so I could never find anything\" etc etc My advice would be to look forward at where you want to be a year or two from now and work towards it. Four years down the line I can\'t actually remember what my grounds for divorce were - and I don\'t care. My kids were never interested in what I told the court - they knew their dad well enough to guess. Even my mother in law accepted without question that her son was at fault. My experience seems to be common among others that I know, the grounds really appear to be meaningless if both parties want to get divorced.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

i understand what you are saying. i ont know if you have seen my numerous other posts. iv been on here a lot just recently. my situation is however, that i have no interest in putting down my grounds at all. im happy to wait 2 years but yes, i take on board what you have said. my grounds are pretty serious and i could not have that undermimed. i may well agree with you in a week or two. i appreciate that we all have an emotional process to go through.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

ps. grounds for divorce are not necessarily only seen by judge etc. i saw my husbands ex wifes as i stumbled across them at home. in my situation, the whole world would see them as far as my husband is concerned. i would not expect anyone to understand this as you ould need to know my husband at close range. i dont want to write bad stuff about him but if hes determined to have the divorce sooner then i will put down the truth but perhaps make less of it than it actually was. i think thats perfectly reasonable, but i still take on board what you are saying because i do agree with you in a sense. thanks again folks

sometimesitdoesn'twork

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 13:03:30

Choose your battles carefully. There\'s no point in wasting time and energy on the divorce. Apart from the fact a defended divorce alone could cost you £15k or more each in legal costs the time, energy and money are better spent on sorting out the finances. The problem with waiting two years is if your H doesn\'t consent it could be tricky using UB as a ground because there is a point where one simply can\'t credibly complain about your spouse behaviour if he is not actually there to be unreasonable. Then you might find you have to wait 5 years to divorce without consent. The problem with this is the finances tend to get very complicated if they aren\'t resolved within a couple of years and if your husband messes you around you will be stuck in limbo. There will be no compulsion for him to complete Form E and if maintenance pending suit is an issue a separate hearing would cost about £3k.

LazyLizzie

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:30:41

I started divorce proceedings in the November and my solicitor wrote immediately to my husband. He wouldn\'t agree to sort out finances between ourselves and in the time that it took to get him to court (the following July) he had managed to hide thousands of pounds. I satisfied the judge that he had hidden over £20k and they were included in the pot for sharing - how much more I couldn\'t identify I don\'t know. It is obviously only my personal opinion, but I wouldn\'t delay your proceedings if I were in your shoes because all you are doing is giving your ex2b the opportunity to hide away as much as he can.

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Posted: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 - 10:24:06

taken on board folks. i will speak to my husband first and see if there is a good reason or a worry he may have about filling in the form first. he may have a good reason. perhaps if i reassure him that i plan to be amicable and discuss the 2 year thing he will see different. but, ye, i would worry about him trying to hide money so maybe i will be advised by solicitor to go straight to divorce. with or without grounds he could be unreasonable if he wants. i just can\'t see a motive for him being unreasonable thats all so hopefully theres a reason for him taking so long.
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