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JohnR

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Subject: Pension entitlements Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:15

When I talk of funeral costs, I am talking about what you would pay an undertaker etc. It does not include a party. You talk of there being no assets, and then you talk of money that ought to go to the children rather than paying funeral costs. Which is it?

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Monitor 441

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

Silky. I\'m not a specialist and haven\'t had any dealings with pensions during my separation apart from with my company one. The lady who deals with it said that once I am divorced, the kids are my next of kin and if I die they will receive any pension money until they are 18. This is because it is a company pension. I\'m not sure if it is the same with personal pensions. Could this be the reason he is asking? I hope your move goes well Mon

london

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

Were you made aware as to the value of your late x\'s pension as part of the divorce proceedings ? (CETV figure) as this may guide you as to what sort of benefits are payable on death - usually the death benefit goes into the estate to be shared out between the beneficiaries of the will - If he died without a will then intestacy rules come into play -i.e. if divorced at time of death and no Civil Partnership then usual priority beneficiaries are the children If CETV significant I\'d be inclined to get legal advice Kind regards,

silky

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

Thanks Monitor, I remember someone else asking me that question now. I have zero information so it looks like I will just have to take the bull by the horns and discuss it........... London, my divorce was a farce! Ex never disclosed anything despite recieving a suspended sentence for contempt. I know the will he had whilst married and brother says there is one - it is the first time anyone has mentioned this since his death yet now they are insistant that we act according to it. Maybe he did make a new one, but I find it hard to believe that in the late stages of alcoholism and being sacked, prior to an overdose, that he\'d be thinking about such things. Something doesn\'t sit right with all of this and I don\'t know what it is. Again, I will have to make contact and hope that my fears are unfounded. I\'ll let you know how I get on. Thanks x

Martin

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:15

Phone up your local probate office and find out what the crack is... will or no will. You might have to place a caveat on it if there is one... ask for the caveat leaflet. As you had an SM Order (if i remember correctly) you\'ll have a claim on the estate. But a lot depends on this that and the other if you know what I mean. Facts first, decision after.

JohnR

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:15

From the title of the post and the other things that you have mentioned, I assume that he died with debts, and that the only assets there might be come from insurance policies, pensions etc. How those payments are treated will depend on the terms of the policies and whether he exercised any choice to specify to the policy providers a recipient of the benefits. My understanding is that if recipients are specified either by his choice, or the terms of the policy etc. then such monies would be due directly to those parties and would not form part of his estate. (When I say his choice, I mean that he specified that as part of the policy contract - not that he has specified it in a will). My perception is that any money from policies not so specified and any other assets form part of his estate. Funeral costs have first call on the money, then creditors. What remains is then available for distribution, in accordance with his will, or if there is no will, in accordance with intestacy rules. My understanding is that someone who was dependant on him can challenge the will or the way the intestacy rules apply, but that they cannot challenge the priority of (reasonable) funeral costs or creditors, nor can they try and dip into policy payouts which are contracturally earmarked.

silky

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

Hi Martin, hope you doing ok! I had no SM, just clean break with the equity from FMH. There are no other assets. I will ring up the probate office (if Google helps me out as never heard of it!) and check things out. I have also sadly made an appt with my sol. John, please tell me I\'m not reading this right? IF there were no directions, then first costs go to pay for his funeral? NOT his kids? That makes my blood boil. I was (am) angry about this whole thing, the fact it may have been suicide etc but was so relieved when I thought the kids may have *something* from him. Don\'t get me wrong, I was never in the marriage for the money, but he neglected them in every other way too, and I want them to think, even if it\'s wrong, that he loved them. I\'m sure without booze, he did. To think that they will fund his pisshead mates in a day\'s drinking at his funeral that my kids didn\'t even attend............I am lost for words. I have read on and see I can challenge this. I will do that without a doubt. It\'s about time that family took some effing responsibility, if not in life, then most deff in death. Sorry, am raw still. Right, factfinding mission coming up.

JohnR

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:15

When I talk of funeral costs, I am talking about what you would pay an undertaker etc. It does not include a party. You talk of there being no assets, and then you talk of money that ought to go to the children rather than paying funeral costs. Which is it?

silky

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

I mean the pensions, there are two.(3 actually, but one is empty) I don\'t know what type they are or the value or anything really. That\'s what I mean by money going to funeral costs rather than the kids. No other assets. John, if you had gone to the funeral, you would understand my anger towards this. Apparently my ex was a hero, a model father, professional sportsman, and generous to all around him...........they only got one bit right. He was 39 and of course they gave him the works. I am sorry, but I am not happy with the children footing the bill. I can see how callous that sounds but I have already had to pay his effing barrister to divorce me! If he took his own life, then he should have effing well sorted out his shit first. I have been there too, but I have way too much love for my children than to even entertain such utter selfishness. I\'m really sorry. This all needs sorting and I just need some pointers. If it were up to me, I\'d shove my head up my butt and come out when it was all done and dusted.

JohnR

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:15

If the only assets are whatever comes from pensions, and there were debts, then, as I said above, how the money is deployed depends on the terms of the policies. If the terms of the policies are that money is paid to a specified person, or he stipulated as part of the pension contract that specified people get the money (there are restrictions on how far you can go with this) then the money is due to those people and not to the estate. If on the other hand, there were no such terms or stipulations, then the money goes to his estate. The cost of the funeral has first call on the estate (if there is any money in the estate). That is then followed by paying off debts. If there is any other money then it is distributed as per the will or the rules of intestacy. A situation where there are unpaid debts, whilst there is a contest between funeral costs and children as to who gets policy proceeds should not arise. If it does then it looks to me as if someone is up to something.

silky

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

Thank you. I\'m fairly confident that nobody is stipulated apart from me, which is now redundant. I just kinda assumed it would pass to the kids. There will be nothing left after debts unless his pension was as serious as he liked to make out. If it wasn\'t for my children, I really would tell them to get on with it and have a very large drink each. The best course of action I presume is for me to do as Martin says and ring that local office and take things from there? I have instructed my sol to sit in the background whilst I try to deal with this. As usual it\'s a mess! John, thank you, I may ask for more help if thats ok. Never again. Martin, hope you sorted a pre-nup! lol

Martin

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:15

Various info for you: (as in \"what is probate\") http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/civil/probate/index.htm And I think your starting point for local office will be here: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/Search.do?court_id=134 (although I\'m not sure where you\'re living now) As there\'s no SM order, any claim you make will be via children ie you had a dependency on him for some financial support for kids until kids reached maturity. But, as JohnR says, there\'s a pecking order at the pot, and funeral directors bill is the top of the list (although even that can be challenged if it\'s unreasonable)(ie a horse drawn glass coach isn\'t a *need* etc) Firstly, establish via probate office if there is a will or not. If there is, place a caveat on it (about 15 from memory). This freezes the \'execution\' of the will for a set period. (in time, you\'ll get a \'warning\' to withdraw it... deal with that later as you learn) During this period, you write to the Executors and ask for disclosure (of the pensions). Starting to sound familiar this, isn\'t it... lol With a pot established (there might be life cover attached to the pension, if not, return of premiums (*actually called contributions*) or the fund value, whatever is higher) the pecking order commences. 1) Funeral bill. 2) Debtors (this is the queue that you\'ll join)(for continued CM) 3) inheritors (if there\'s any money left) It\'s the same pecking order if there\'s no will (intestacy) but probate will deal with it (probably by appointing a sol) rather than a named executor. A Will drawn up before D Absolute is null & void, although a DJ may refer to it to establish intentions. That\'s a long way off and a different kettle of fish. \"Martin, hope you sorted a pre-nup!\" Nah, I just got her to deposit all of her money into my sole account lol

silky

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Posted: Thursday, December 5, 2013 - 12:54:16

\'Starting to sound familiar this, isn\'t it... lol\' Filled with deep deep joy...................... Thanks, will get cracking and let you know how I get on x. (Sorry John about the rant last night! I\'m usually such a placid creature.....lol)
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